IMSLP Forums

Here are a few gaps I'd love to see filled if possible:

Orchestral score for Stanford's 4th Symphony (this is a long-standing request - IMSLP only has the two-piano reduction).

Symphony #2 by Alexander von Zemlinsky

The "Olympie" overture, and any symphony by Joseph Martin Kraus

Any symphony by Louise Farrenc

Orchestral scores by Samuel Coleridge-Taylor

Eberl's Symphony in Eb

Chadwick's "Thalia Overture"

- Ken

As a side note, It seems that the Stanford piano reduction is actually for 1 piano, 4 hands...

Ah yes - I stand (or sit) corrected.

Regarding the Kraus "Olympie" Overture can one make parts from any score version? That is is copyright only regarding the mechanical print of the music and not the editing, whether modern or urtext? I would be prepared to make parts if I can get my hands on a score.

Thanks for all the helpful answers to my questions.

amadeus wrote:That is is copyright only regarding the mechanical print of the music and not the editing, whether modern or urtext?

I'm not entirely sure what you mean by this, I guess I'll throw a few points out and see if they help:

The "mechanical print of the music" is relevant when assessing date of first publication, which depending on the jurisdiction and the time period is necessary for determining copyright status.

The copyrightability of editors' contributions to a publication varies widely both with the scope of said contributions and with jurisdiction. For example, US copyright law since 1978 doesn't (as far as I'm aware) attempt to differentiate between any sort of editing, so urtext editions are just as copyrighted there as arrangements. In contrast, EU laws grant much-reduced copyright terms to urtext editions, and some member states are also a lot more lenient with regards to what could be considered urtext in the first place.

I'm not sure what the copyright status of Farrenc's symphonies is. The ms of an alternate movement of one of them, I think, is at the French National Library, though getting them to scan it in if they haven't already may be a problem; the scores themselves as used on the two or three existing recordings were published by F. Noetzel of Wilhelmshaven in 1998 and 2000 (1&3 and 2, respectively, and as a "Kritische Ausgabe" at that, edited by Katharina Herwig (1) & Christin Heitmann (2&3)), I see from Worldcat, and possibly not earlier. At least one was performed in the 1840s (need to check which one(s)), but I think that's only relevant if you find and scan a autograph manuscript or early manuscript copy... and not always necessarily even then; 'm not an expert about these things.

Eberl's symphony was published in 1983, I think, by Garland Publications. A manuscript (autograph or copy, I don't know) is at at least two libraries, I think- Harvard and U. Michigan Ann Arbor- building use only, probably are not planning on scanning or letting people borrow it (Michigan's catalog description places it squarely in the rare books room: see http://mirlyn.lib.umich.edu/Record/0049 ... escription. Note the bottom line:

"Photocopy of the ms. original in the Gesellschaft der Musikfreunde, Vienna. [S.l. : s.n., 19--]. 1 ms. score ([110] leaves) : negative ; 13 x 16 cm. Mounted, ca. 2 p. per page, on [56] p. ; 35 cm. "

As to Zemlinsky's symphony 2, we have the interesting case of a Musikproduktion Höflich publication, 2002, that's a reprint of a "Reduced reprint of a Universal Edition publication (UE 11 413) not previously issued for sale; Beaumont's commentary c2002." I wonder what the copyright status is of a Universal Edition publication not previously issued for sale (if it was intended to be issued before 1923. Though since its first issue date is undeniably 2002 in any case, I am going to guess offhand that it is copyrighted in the US and Canada too, since it was only -intended- to be issued for sale, not actually issued. The only other editions of Sym. 2 I see are also published later than 1963 (e.g. 1977), so it's probably a non-starter for this site for a decade or so?...

Kraus' Olympie was published in 1982 by Artaria editions (and while I notice people do upload typesets based on copyrighted editions here all the time- and from public domain editions too, which is fine, but in both cases practically almost uniformly always without mentioning the source of their typesets - anycase, more to the point, a typeset based on a copyrighted edition is, far as I know, a bad idea, even if one thinks one's removed editorial accretions ("I've removed the fingerings from the violin part", one will see in the notes...)- sometimes, comparing to the original, one will see that the editorial work went, had to go, much further than mere fingering... end rant... )

Eric - thanks for the information. At least it gives me some clues to work with.

Please provide the nationalities and life dates of these composers. Perhaps some of us are ready to search these works in http://imslp.org/wiki/IMSLP:Other_music_score_websites and these data are some clues to find the right website.

Charles Villiers Stanford 1852-1924, English

Alexander (von) Zemlinsky 1871-1942 Austrian (died in New York State, USA)

Joseph Martin Kraus 1756-1792 (born Germany, died in Sweden)

Louise Farrenc 1804-1875 (born Jeanne-Louise Dumont. Farrenc married name, not alias. French)

Samuel Coleridge-Taylor 1875-1912 English

Anton (Franz Josef) Eberl 1765-1807 Austrian

George Whitefield Chadwick (I assume; there were several contemporary composing Chadwicks, but the Thalia Overture is by GW Chadwick, I think) 1854-1931, American.

The parts of the Kraus Olympie overture has just recently been uploaded by, it seems, the editor of the (new-)Artaria Editions (New Zealand) typeset (one of the earliest publications of the work, not counting manuscript copying which sort of does count under copyright law in some ways, I gather)- can be seen amongst the new uploads. (Thanks!)

Eric wrote:Charles Villiers Stanford 1852-1924, English

Actually, Stanford was born (and grew up) in Dublin, which would make him Irish (and, he would have said, British). Sorry to be such a nerd.

No, no- quite right. (I was perhaps inverse-thinking about Bax , the "Irish" composer from London (well, ok, Bax did indeed die in Ireland) )