IMSLP Forums

Hello!

I am desperately looking für a Vocal Score (Voice and Piano) of the Barbiere-Aria "Largo al factotum" in a lower key.
Maybe someone here can help me or at least give me a hint where I could find it. Thank you very, very much!

I didn't even know that lowering the key was allowed.

I plan on submitting the full score at some point, but I have no interest whatsoever in searching out any transpositions.
@ Lyle: Yes, unfortunately many singers care not for original artistic creation and are perfectly fine with willy-nilly transposition into their range.

It seems to me that any conservatory-trained piano student should be able to do a transposition at sight. Surely any professional vocal accompanist worthy of the title should also be able to do this. I myself, a violinist by training and not a pianist, had to do a sight reading of an orchestral full score at the piano, transpositions included, in order to pass out of my college's Basic Musicianship course. It was so traumatic that I still remember that passage (from Brahms' 2nd Symphony) with some terror, several decades after the fact. LOL.

--Sixtus

PS: IMSLP should demand of all of its amateur-music-engraver contributors that their submissions must have the transposing instruments in orchestral scores notated at sounding pitch (i.e. in C), as in all the scores of Prokofiev as well as the New Bach Edition (Neue Bach Ausgabe). There's no point in re-engraving anything if the result is just a more modern-looking page (which may not necessarily be attractive as a result).

daphnis wrote:I plan on submitting the full score at some point, but I have no interest whatsoever in searching out any transpositions.
@ Lyle: Yes, unfortunately many singers care not for original artistic creation and are perfectly fine with willy-nilly transposition into their range.

Hello! No reason to be rude! By the way - think about pitch in Rossini's time and what's left of the "original artistic creation" today.

I don't understand, why people have to attack each other in a forum. If you don't want to or cannot help, so maybe you can post something helpful in another thread. Thank you!

sbeckmesser wrote:PS: IMSLP should demand of all of its amateur-music-engraver contributors that their submissions must have the transposing instruments in orchestral scores notated at sounding pitch (i.e. in C)

Many published scores have horn, clarinet and trumpet parts in the written pitch, so although I understand where you're coming from, I don't see how something can be demanded that is different from many of the scanned scores already uploaded. And if we do demand exact concert pitch, then we have to deal with piccolo parts and double bass parts with zillions of ledger lines. Otherwise, technically, it's transposition for some, and not others.

Just a thought . . . .

Well you COULD just use 8va/vb for them....but personally I for one MUCH prefer to see a score written as the players will see them. I can kinda understand it in the case where it's an option (like Prokofiev as mentioned, I know Symphony #1 has parts for both A and Bb clarinet), but normally it seems to make more sense to show it in written pitch, partly because most other scores do it and thus it looks 'right', but also because hey, if a conductor is looking at a score, it's much easier to instruct without having to mentally remember which instrument is playing what notes.

Hello! No reason to be rude! By the way - think about pitch in Rossini's time and what's left of the "original artistic creation" today.

I don't understand, why people have to attack each other in a forum. If you don't want to or cannot help, so maybe you can post something helpful in another thread. Thank you!

My comment "Yes, unfortunately many singers care not for original artistic creation and are perfectly fine with willy-nilly transposition into their range." was not directed to you. That's what the "@ Lyle" means (to Lyle Neff).

Well I know some composers themselves wrote versions of songs in multiples keys...

But yeah. it's a bit annoying when trying to get complete recordings of composer x's songs, only to find out the only ones available are for the wrong key or voice (check out http://www.tchaikovsky-research.net/en/ ... index.html and then notice that Naxos's 'complete' songs are all sung by a Soprano...)

Melodia wrote:Well I know some composers themselves wrote versions of songs in multiples keys...

But yeah. it's a bit annoying when trying to get complete recordings of composer x's songs, only to find out the only ones available are for the wrong key or voice (check out http://www.tchaikovsky-research.net/en/ ... index.html and then notice that Naxos's 'complete' songs are all sung by a Soprano...)

By this logic only tenors should sing Schubert, since all his original keys are for Schubert's own tenor voice range. That'll put an end to baritones, basses or even mezzo-sopranos singing Winterreise.

More seriously, I'm much more irritated by instrumentalists -- apparently hampered by a lack of good pieces for their particular instrument -- appropriating music written quite specifically and idiomatically for another. As a violin player I get set off by Vivaldi's 4 Seasons for flute or recorder or harp or anything else but a violin (though I used to like the Koto Ensemble of Tokyo's rendition). Likewise for Bach's Sonatas and Partitas played on even so closely related instrument as a viola. As a Baroque aficionado I am fed up with pianists attempting to do the French harpsichord repertory such as Couperin and Rameau. I'd sooner listen to dreadful albums of opera singers doing renditions of Broadway or rock hits. At least those have some camp/party-record value.

--Sixtus

sbeckmesser wrote: By this logic only tenors should sing Schubert, since all his original keys are for Schubert's own tenor voice range. That'll put an end to baritones, basses or even mezzo-sopranos singing Winterreise.

--Sixtus

Actually, several are originally for bass. But not any of the cycles or most of the more famous songs.

@ Sixtus: Agreed entirely. What gets me is tubists, for example, playing most of our (oboe) baroque and romantic repertoire on their instrument. Have you ever heard the Schumann 3 Romances played by tuba? You don't want to...

We should probably not take this thread any further off topic. Sorry for instigating this!

sbeckmesser wrote: By this logic only tenors should sing Schubert, since all his original keys are for Schubert's own tenor voice range. That'll put an end to baritones, basses or even mezzo-sopranos singing Winterreise.

But he didn't write it specifclally for tenor, did it? Most of the time, songs are written simply for "voice".

But compare that complete Tchaikovsky I mentioned, with the complete Rachmaninov songs on Chandos, which takes care to do it right.

sbeckmesser wrote: More seriously, I'm much more irritated by instrumentalists -- apparently hampered by a lack of good pieces for their particular instrument -- appropriating music written quite specifically and idiomatically for another. As a violin player I get set off by Vivaldi's 4 Seasons for flute or recorder or harp or anything else but a violin (though I used to like the Koto Ensemble of Tokyo's rendition). Likewise for Bach's Sonatas and Partitas played on even so closely related instrument as a viola. As a Baroque aficionado I am fed up with pianists attempting to do the French harpsichord repertory such as Couperin and Rameau. I'd sooner listen to dreadful albums of opera singers doing renditions of Broadway or rock hits. At least those have some camp/party-record value.

Well the big difference (at least to what I was saying) is that they are specifically transcribing it. My complaint was more geared toward how it's represented, and more to the point, the lack of knowing if a recording IS the 'right' one. If you buy a Four Seasons on harp, it's obviously not how it was originally...I frankly LOVE transcriptions myself, and have even been pondering making a bunch of clarinet + piano arrangements of piano pieces.

Then again, maybe you're being sarcastic...