Hi guys.
Yes, this is really confusing. (And despite Aldona's comment above, I'm not sure I'd mark it 10/10 for complete accuracy, and I'm only going to give myself 8/10, because I didn't realise just how much work Newbould had done...)
Brian Newbould (amongst others) has completed five of the Schubert "Unfinished" symphonies (yes,
five):
D 615 in D major: fairly insubstantial: only two movements (an Adagio–Allegro moderato, and an Allegretto), about four and three minutes of music respectively. The Hyperion recording doesn't dignify it with a number.
Hyperion:
http://www.hyperion-records.co.uk/al.asp?al=CDA67000
D 708a in D major: only slightly more substantial: the standard four movements this time, though only the Scherzo and Trio is longer than three minutes. Why? Rinse and repeat a three minute Scherzo and Trio (AABB-CCDD-AB) and you will easily get seven minutes of music. Again, the Hyperion doesn't give it a symphony number, and quite appropriately so; these two might qualify as "6A and 6B", or if you like software version numbers, maybe "6.1" and "6.2".
D 729 in E major: as Seu Lunga pointed out, this is a continuous sketch of a large four-movement work from beginning to end of about 35 minutes duration (1340 bars), though for over 1000+ bars of it Schubert only wrote out a single melodic line, so much of Newbould's completion is conjectural, based on taking Schubert's thematic ideas and constructing plausible counterpoint, instrumental textures etc. He had to abandon work on this to compose Alfonso und Estrella (D 732).
From memory, the 90 or 100 bars that Schubert fully scored doesn't even reach the end of the first movement exposition. There are two other completions besides Newbould's (1981), one dating from ~1881 (Barnett), and one from 1934 by the well-known conductor/composer Felix Weingartner (1863–1942). This one is now
sort of accepted as "No. 7", when and if people refer to it at all. There are not many recordings of it around, either:
Amazon:
http://www.amazon.com/Franz-Schubert-Sy ... B000001SPY (the Newbould version, on the Koch CD label)
Naxos:
http://www.naxos.com/catalogue/item.asp ... de=9.80641 (the Weingartner version, in an archival recording from 1952)
By the way, do
not confuse it with the fake Schubert symphony in E, mentioned here:
Amazon:
http://www.amazon.com/Schubert-Symphony ... B0000057VE
This is supposedly the "Gmunden-Gastein" symphony of 1825. The reviews this work gets are quite funny to read, as there is obviously a lot of plagiarism in it!
D 759 in B minor, the archetypal "Unfinished" symphony: yes, the two complete extant movements add up to nearly half an hour, however the Scherzo and Trio that Schubert sketched would clearly have been not much larger than the dimensions of Symphonies 1–6. My own completion of the movement plays for under 6 minutes (still under 7', even if all of the repeats were to be pedantically obeyed in the repeat of the Scherzo). I find that the B minor entr'acte from Rosamunde D 797, Nº 1 works as an okay finish to the piece, it's nearly 10 minutes, goes through a variety of moods, and has a wonderful coda that flashes into B major at the very end. Satisfying, but not "Great" (as in the D 944 sense!). This is generally accepted as "No. 8", though you will find the Neue Schubert Ausgabe confusing the issue by calling it "Nr 7" (and D 944 then becomes "Nr 8"); cf the rant on this below.
There have been hundreds of attempted completions of the two missing movements, some of which are quite "wacky" and un-Schubertian. A number of composers were unaware of the existence of the sketches for the Scherzo, or decided to ignore it. Mine is pretty conservative, and I might post it here sometime today if I'm feeling motivated...
D 936a in D major: again, sizeable sketches for unusually, a three-movement work: however the third movement would apparently have combined elements of Scherzo and Finale (perhaps a bit like the way Beethoven's 5th has the last two movements "involved with each other"). In this movement there are apparently strong signs of the counterpoint studies that Schubert was making in late 1828, so it might have been quite "special".
Again there is more than one version of this to be had: a "straight" completion by Newbould, and a rather "wacky" one by Luciano Berio, entitled "Rendering", which presents the Schubert fragments properly realised, and when they gradually peter out, then all of a sudden you find yourself in the middle of a 20th century atonal soup: a bit like if you imagined that the manuscript had abruptly disintegrated into an unrecognisable mess of black dots
This one is now often referred to as "No. 10" since it was the one described as the "letze" or last symphony Schubert was working on prior to his death.
There is one other symphonic sketch (from memory, something like D 2b/997) in D major, as well as some orchestral sketches that might have been intended for a symphonic work, since the form of a classical overture tends to follow typical first-movement sonata form. None of these are to the same extent as D 729, 759, or 936a.
The hypothetical lost Gmunden-Gastein symphony of 1825, I would have no idea about at all. One theory has it that it was merely the first draft of D 944, as opposed to the final version (which may be incorrectly) dated March 1828; there was also a 19th-century vogue that it was the Grand Duo sonata in C for piano four hands D 812, which led Joseph Joachim to orchestrate it for Schubert's usual symphonic forces. Whatever it is, let's simply call it lost, and commiserate...
So, here's the reason for the huge amount of confusion above. There are at least
three competing numbering conventions:
19th century: 7 = Great C major; 8 = Unfinished B minor (numbered subsequently to D 944, because it was rediscovered later, in the 1860s).
Current IMSLP template: 7 = D 729 in E; 8 = D 759 in b (Unfinished); 9 = D 944 in C (Great); 10 = D 936a in D (Last)
Neue Schubert Ausgabe/Otto Erich Deutsch: Nummer 7 = D 759, h-moll (Unvollendete); Nummer 8 = D 944, C-Dur (Grosse)
The vast majority of 20th century literature: books, websites, CD recordings, LP records, library catalogues, etc. will use the
second of these conventions, mainly for the B minor and C major symphonies, of course. However, the 19th century convention was still being used well into the 20th century: the first orchestral score I ever saw of Schubert was a Boosey & Hawkes pocket score of "Number 7" (the key was C major)
The convention which I absolutely
cannot abide is the one adopted by the New Schubert Edition and Deutsch, which reverses the 19th century nomenclature despite the risk of inherent confusion with old scores, by choosing numbers for both the B minor and great C major that are at odds with both of the other two conventions, i.e. with 99% of the known Schubert universe. Like: how pedantic, musicologically-informed, and brain-numbingly, pants-wettingly, colossally and monumentally
stupid.
You would have thought that someone as clever as Deutsch would have found it simpler to break the strict chronological order and have the complete symphonies numbered from 1 to 7, and the "unfinished" ones relegated to 8, 9, 10; but no. With all due respect to them in all other regards, as far as consistent and convenient symphonic numbering goes: Deutsch & NSA = Dumb and Dumber.
Basically, it's so confusing that these days I tend to leave off the numbers of the symphonies after No. 6, and just call them by their monikers, or key signatures, thus: E major, B minor (or only slightly ambiguously, the "Unfinished"), the Great C major, and the Last D major
Anyway, I think the point of the original poster above, was that whoever submitted the old B&H plates of the "Great" believed what it said, and called it "No. 7" (which was in line with the 19th century convention). The submitter then made the mistake of applying the information for one of the other possible "No. 7"s (i.e. the IMSLP template, where 7 = D 729).
Someone should rename and re-upload that score (and possibly break it into four separate movements at the same time).
The convention that has been adopted by the IMSLP template is, and for evermore shall be: 7/E (729), 8/b (759), 9/C (944), 10/D (936a). Amen.
(At least until the genuine (?) Gmunden-Gastein symphony in E major turns up, as opposed to the
fake one! Just kidding. Mwahahaha.)
It would be really wonderful if someone could lay their hands on the Weingartner version of 7 in E major, as he is now in the PD in Canada (and Australia too). The very fragmentary symphonies in D major (615 and 708a) are unlikely to appear here in any form apart from scans of MS, though I suppose I will rejig the little navbox of the Schubert Symphonies to include them as well.
Here endeth the rant.
Regards, PML
PS Dr Jones, would you like me to post my completion of the B minor?
