Vivaldi RV 560: Concert for 2 clarinets, 2 oboe and strings

[Geo[Hawaii]]

Vivaldi RV 560: Concert for 2 clarinets, 2 oboe and strings
Anyone know about this and RV 559 scores?

[steltz]

If you're lucky you'll be able to get a manuscript with unfigured bass. The printed editions are more modern and the editors are generally protected, though usually not for as long as composers. The main problem with the clarinet works is that they attracted very little attention until recently, so the editors are mostly still protected.

But a manuscript would at least give you the opportunity to write out parts for yourself.

[Geo[Hawaii]]

I will do it, if i found these scans, do you know about any online library that could have this score?

[Eric]

Hrm. Dresden ("SLUB") library has parts of some Vivaldi concertos (it's not the easiest to use site.) I notice when looking through the Vivaldi concerto uploads we have that are manuscripts (see the link Category Walker - Vivaldi category + Manuscripts - that SLUB accounts for at least some of them. I used to know how to use that site but it's changed a lot since then- others may have to pick up from there... sorry!

[Boccaccio]

I was involved in uploading the Vivaldi pieces from SLUB to IMSLP. As far as I can tell, we should have all pieces available there on IMSLP by now, so if the two concertos are not available here now, they most certainly do not exist in Dresden neither. This would imply we can just wait and hope for Turin to scan their Vivaldi collection completely (so far, they only scanned L'Olimpiade, the serenatas and some cantatas).

[Geo[Hawaii]]

I was involved in uploading the Vivaldi pieces from SLUB to IMSLP. As far as I can tell, we should have all pieces available there on IMSLP by now, so if the two concertos are not available here now, they most certainly do not exist in Dresden neither. This would imply we can just wait and hope for Turin to scan their Vivaldi collection completely (so far, they only scanned L'Olimpiade, the serenatas and some cantatas).

I'm doubtful about Turin university library interest for these scans.

[Eric]

Hrm.
I see little chance of finding the manuscript listed under a direct Italian translation of the title since I don't think clarinets were used much until several generations later, or am I mistaken? Clarino was a term in use, yes, but that meant more or less "trumpet", not "clarinet"- there's a world or five of difference. So having the original, pre-editors, Italian title of this work to search with would be very helpful... if at all possible. Or at least having something like it to start with and going from there...

[steltz]

The CD I have of these works gives the title as "Concerti per 2 oboe e 2 clarinetti in do maggiore RV559 e RV560, and then discusses the designation "clarini", but it is unclear whether the guy writing the notes was referring to RV560 or RV 556. Either way, it is definitely clarinets that were intended, not trumpets.

Try both "clarinetti" and "clarini"? There weren't any concertos for trumpet and oboe together, so if you find something for "oboe e clarini" it has to be these.

[Boccaccio]

I looked for RV 560 in RISM but could not find anything there.

[Notenschreiber]

There has been a discussion about the two concerts here: http://test.woodwind.org/oboe/BBoard/re ... 6&t=345756

[Choralia]

By chance, a copy of the Ricordi edition of 1947 was available at a music shop that I visited today. It definitely contains a continuo realization by Angelo Ephrikian (1913 - 1982), still under copyright for a long time...

Max

[Boccaccio]

Was the realization an original one or just what naturally follows from the bass line and its figures?

[Eric]

The copyright implications of the answer to that question (if it can be answered even sort-of-objectively) probably differ between countries, at a guess... (I do seem to recall that it was at the heart of the judgment in a recently famous case between Sawkins and Hyperion, true.)

[Choralia]

I have no music education so I'm not able to evaluate the level of originality of a continuo realization (that is anyway a rather subjective matter). However, Angelo Ephrikian was a significant musician (see http://www.treccani.it/enciclopedia/ang ... rafico%29/ - in Italian) so his skills were definitely beyond the mere mechanical expansion of the figured bass.

By the way, this Ricordi score is available at SheetMusicPlus (US$ 12.95).

Max

[Notenschreiber]

The realization of a Basso continuo is never "unique" in a mathematical sence, you always have a lot of possibilities. Some efforts have
been made to do realizations by a computer programm (Sibilius 4 for example). But the results are always rather bad. This proves in my
opinion, that realizition of B.c. is in some sense "creative".