Neue Bach-Ausgabe and copyright/urtext

[Steve Martin]

I have a question regarding some of the scores on this page: https://imslp.org/wiki/Neue_Bach-Ausgab ... Sebastian)

these are obviously public domain works that have been reengraved etc.
Some of these are still not public domain in the USA. Why does the more than 25 year old rule since the re-publication of a pd work not apply to them?
I did notice that some of the volumes are listed as Pd. I don't live in the USA, but live in Australia.

I also saw in the WTC book 1, that there is 2 files that seem to originally come from Neue Bach-Ausgabe, Series V, Band 6.1 (pp.1-123), The files on the WTC bk 1 page are #886531, and #576048 and are noted as PD . However, the source for these files seems to be The Series V, Band 6.1 mentioned above. So, the non pd version of the same work is #885885 on the first page link I gave in this message.
This is a little confusing, but I'm sure there is a logical explanation for this.

Thanks if anyone can help me understand what is happening here.

Steve

[Sallen112]

Hello,

So the reason why certain volumes have the Non PD Status for the USA is a bit complex. In short here is a guideline of how the tags are applied for the USA (the 25 year rule does not apply to the USA, only for Canada since they follow EU status and EU is the 25 year rule for critical editions):

• Anything published from 1929-63 with Copyright Registration and Renewal has a term for 95 years since publication, without a renewal found, then it is most likely PD in the USA.

• Anything published from 1964-77 is automatically copyright for 95 years, renewals are not applicable here as long as the copyright notice is a proper notice.

• Anything 1978 and later is Life + 70 on here of the death of the most recent contributor of the volume (e.g. Editors for example of the volume contents or the content of the section who edited it in the volume) who is still alive or died recently. If all editors are still alive, we apply "N" (which does not expire) for now until we get updates later on if all the editors die for that particular volume, then the tag can be updated to a (for Life + 70) year where the tag does finally expire in the USA.

However its been disputed that the copyrights on these kinds of volumes don't hold much water in the USA because there is no new original content being shown in the music (because it is a critical/scientific edition engraving 1:1 from the facsimiles as close as possible), as the music is already in the public domain everywhere for J.S. Bach. But to be safe, we are still going to apply the copyright term to the USA regardless for now for volumes with Life + 70 of any contributor involved with the volume (published 1978 and later).

[Steve Martin]

Hi,

yes, that is rather complex. The rule here, down under in Australia for all pd materials that have been republished, is it expires after 25 years, which sounds exactly the same as Canada and other places.

I have read on the net somewhere that there is some kind of agreement between Australia and US if there are copyright differences, but I'm going to try and contact the authorities today that deal with copyright here in Australia, and see if I can find some further information on that.

I'll let you know how I go when I find out more.

Thanks for taking the time to explain the US urtext edition rules.

best regards,

Steve

[Steve Martin]

Hi again,

there is still a question in my head here.
So on the page for the Bach harpsichord concerto in D minor;[ https://imslp.org/wiki/Harpsichord_Conc ... Sebastian)], we have the score numbered #948978 which is from the Bach-Gesellschaft Ausgabe collection, and it says it is Public Domain. However, the book which the forenamed score is taken from [https://imslp.org/wiki/Neue_Bach-Ausgab ... Sebastian)], called "Series VII. Orchestral Works" is not listed as public domain.

So my query is this, and I'm sure you are correctly guessing my question even before I type it - how can a score listed as public domain, such as #948978, which comes from a collection of scores from the Series VII. Orchestral works, which is listed as not being in the public domain, be listed as public domain on the D minor harpsichord web page?

Obviously there is a reason, so is it possible to explain this to me? Is it because the whole book that it comes from has editorial notes etc as part of the book which would not be public domain, where as the score on the Harpsichord concerto page does not have these editorial marks etc, so it is listed as PD?
Thanks for your help with this.

Steve

[Sallen112]

I am kind of confused on what you mean, so the BGA editions is of course in the public domain in all regions, but the NBA edition because of the era these were published in can have multiple copyright tags based on the year it was published (well its usually only one, which is the Non PD-USA tag). This volume was published in 1999, which just pass the 25 year for critical edition protection and the copyright has expired in Canada and the EU but not the USA, which is still under copyright there for an unknown date based on the most recent contributor (which is the editor of the volume).

Both of these tags apply the exact same to this workpage and the NBA collection workpage, none of them are different and are freely accessed the same way and can be downloaded.

[Steve Martin]

Thanks for your response, I do appreciate that.

I just need some more time to write a reply so I will get back to you when I have that.

thanks,

Steve.

[Steve Martin]

I think this will make this easier if I ask the following,
is the score #948982 public domain in the USA as well? It should be in Australia as far as I know.

thanks,

Steve

[Steve Martin]

deleted that message.

[Steve Martin]

is the score #948982 public domain in the USA as well? It should be in Australia as far as I know.

thanks,

Steve

deleted that message.

[Sallen112]

I think this will make this easier if I ask the following,
is the score #948982 public domain in the USA as well? It should be in Australia as far as I know.

thanks,

Steve

No it is not public domain in the USA. Australia would have to have the 25 year rule the same as the EU for it to expire there for it to be PD, that I am not sure on. All I know is they are Life + 70. It might not be PD there.

[Steve Martin]

Hi Sallen,

thanks for your reply. Yes, the 25 year rule applies here.

Apparently we have some kind of agreement with the US over copyright, and I will probably contact the dept that deals with that,
and clarify this.

thanks again, and best,

Steve