À la chapelle sixtine, S.461
Why is this listed in the Collections tab? (http://imslp.org/wiki/Category:Liszt,_Franz) It should be in the Compositions.
Liszt - À la chapelle sixtine, S.461
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ferencziffra
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Rob Peters
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Re: Liszt - À la chapelle sixtine, S.461
My guess is that it's because it's supposed to be not an original composition but a "collection" of two arrangements of pieces by Allegri and Mozart.
But you're right, it's a gray area, since the piece bears an official S. number and it's mostly performed as a whole (the two parts run into each other without interruption). And more importantly, it contains so much original music that you can hardly call it an arrangement anymore. It's more like an opera paraphrase, of which Liszt wrote several and which are listed under his original compositions.
So I'd be in favor of moving it to "compositions" as well.
But you're right, it's a gray area, since the piece bears an official S. number and it's mostly performed as a whole (the two parts run into each other without interruption). And more importantly, it contains so much original music that you can hardly call it an arrangement anymore. It's more like an opera paraphrase, of which Liszt wrote several and which are listed under his original compositions.
So I'd be in favor of moving it to "compositions" as well.
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Carolus
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Re: Liszt - À la chapelle sixtine, S.461
The problem with the S numbers is that they included very straightforward arrangements in the mix. This item really is both a collection and an original piece since at least one version of the Mozart is a transcription, while the Allegri has a lot of original material. Very difficult one.
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Rob Peters
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Re: Liszt - À la chapelle sixtine, S.461
The problem with arrangements embedded in original works isn't exclusive to Liszt.
I'm currently scanning some piano Fantasias based on Wagner operas, by composers (arrangers??) like Jadassohn and Kogel. I think we really need some standardization on where these scores have to go: the original opera's page, or the arranger's page?
On Jadassohn's composer page for example I see some opera fantasias (or potpourris) listed as original works, while other pieces in the exact same genre are only listed under "arrangements". It looks rather messy.
I'm currently scanning some piano Fantasias based on Wagner operas, by composers (arrangers??) like Jadassohn and Kogel. I think we really need some standardization on where these scores have to go: the original opera's page, or the arranger's page?
On Jadassohn's composer page for example I see some opera fantasias (or potpourris) listed as original works, while other pieces in the exact same genre are only listed under "arrangements". It looks rather messy.
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Davydov
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Re: Liszt - À la chapelle sixtine, S.461
As it happens we do already have a guideline for these types of works -- it's just not always followed (!).
Fantasias, potpourris, paraphrases and the like should be treated as original works and given their own page. There should be cross-references to and from the page of the work from which the themes have been taken.
'Literal' arrangements of extracts from larger works (which follow the original music closely) should remain with the original work, in the 'Arrangements and Transcriptions' section.
In the case of Liszt, the Searle catalogue helpfully distinguishes between 'paraphrases', etc. (S. 383a to 460) and 'partitons de piano' (S. 461 to 577). This isn't always clear for other composers though.
(I wouldn't consider S. 461 as a 'collection' though, and I see that someone else has already removed it from that category.)
Fantasias, potpourris, paraphrases and the like should be treated as original works and given their own page. There should be cross-references to and from the page of the work from which the themes have been taken.
'Literal' arrangements of extracts from larger works (which follow the original music closely) should remain with the original work, in the 'Arrangements and Transcriptions' section.
In the case of Liszt, the Searle catalogue helpfully distinguishes between 'paraphrases', etc. (S. 383a to 460) and 'partitons de piano' (S. 461 to 577). This isn't always clear for other composers though.
(I wouldn't consider S. 461 as a 'collection' though, and I see that someone else has already removed it from that category.)
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Rob Peters
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Re: Liszt - À la chapelle sixtine, S.461
Thanks for clearing that up, Davydov.
I just submitted the Jadassohn Fantasia (on Wagner's "Fliegende Holländer") but put it under "arrangements" in the Wagner page. I guess it should have its own page instead.
The Wagner opera pages contain several more works (potpourris, fantasias etc, mostly under "selections") that should be moved, following the guidelines.
EDIT: Moved the Jadasson piece to a new page.
I just submitted the Jadassohn Fantasia (on Wagner's "Fliegende Holländer") but put it under "arrangements" in the Wagner page. I guess it should have its own page instead.
The Wagner opera pages contain several more works (potpourris, fantasias etc, mostly under "selections") that should be moved, following the guidelines.
EDIT: Moved the Jadasson piece to a new page.