Satie - 4 Préludes flasques

[DrunkenFrenchman]

I would really like to play Satie's 4 Preludes flasques, but I'm unable to find the music anywhere on the interwebs. I've heard them performed on two different CD's that I own. I'm starting to wonder if they are even in print for the general public. Please note that I am NOT referring to the 3 Veritables preludes flasques, which are already available on IMSLP. Here are the official names of the set:

Préludes flasques (pour un chien)
I. Voix d'intérieur
II. Idylle cynique
III. Chanson canine
IV. Avec camaraderie (originally Sous la futaille)

[pml]

Many of the works were published sufficiently late (posthumously, naturally) to have incurred the wrath of the copyright gods – presumably these flabby preludes are in the same boat as the others?

Cheers, PML

[DrunkenFrenchman]

Maybe so, but why would the other 3 flabby preludes be available for download (which they are)?

Bah, I'm sick of these stupid copyright laws. If the composer is no longer alive, why should anybody else receive money from his/her creations?! (/rage)

[pml]

If they were published separately, then that’s enough for the differentiation in copyright status to occur, sadly… Remember, what you want (presumably) is free access to these; they shouldn’t be that expensive if you’re obliged to buy a copy instead. PML

[DrunkenFrenchman]

I guess that's the problem then. I can't find them in print anywhere.

[kalliwoda]

The (4) Préludes flasques: (pour un chien), pour piano; (œuvre posthume) were published by Eschig in 1967, could be uploaded on the EU server but still are under copyright in Canada and US.
You can find many copies on worldcat in libraries (in the advanced search you can limit to 1967 and musical score...).
Its also in the Eschig catalog: ME 7714, at 13.40€ for 7 pages not really a bargain...

[daphnis]

Kalliwoda is correct. To expound a bit, as of 1 January 2010, the French term of life + 70 + 14 (wartime extensions) was up. As of 1 January 2011, anything first published in 1985 or before is now public domain in the country of origin The only thing protecting Satie's works in Canada is the 25-year Editio Princeps rubric. While this won't have much of an effect since these posthumously-published pieces are still under copyright in the US, it will free them up for the EU server. I actually have been meaning to go back through my collection and upload ALL of these works (since I already have them in digital form) but just plain forgot. Since I completed the Satie works page some time ago, I had to ask these works to sit on the bench, but sometime soon I'll upload all the rest, and among them will be the Préludes flasques (pour un chien) and many more (Vexations, Gnossiennes 4-6, Ogives, Première pensée Rose+Croix, etc.).

EDIT: Just for clarification if the above doesn't make much sense, if you are accessing IMSLP from either Canada or the US, these works will appear blocked to you, but if you are in the EU, they will be available.

[pml]

Yes, I’m not sure that make sense Daphnis: I think you’re talking about different national domains in respect of © vis à vis 1/1/2010 and 1/1/2011? Anyway, I don’t think it matters that I don’t understand (and my brain is already hurting), the upshot is that the flabby preludes will be available soon. And other Satie goodness.

Oh, and Vexations is already up. I’ve already been very vexed (mais non 840 fois, merci!) ;-)

[daphnis]

Re. Vexations - You're right! I can't keep track of what I've uploaded, clearly. In any case, only those works published in the past 25 years are still under copyright in Canada.

Copied from Carolus below:

As of January 1 of this year [2010], it would appear that anything of his first published more than 25 years ago (1984 and before) entered the public domain in France - the country of origin. This will not have a great effect on things here, but it might free some items to be available at IMSLP-EU, as Canada observes a type of "Rule of the Shorter Term" for works whose country of origin is not a member of NAFTA. Now the only thing covering Satie works in Canada is the 25-year rubric of Editio Princeps. The French term of life-plus-70, plus 14 years for the wars is now finished. Carolus 23:04, 17 August 2010 (UTC)

[daphnis]

Préludes flasques (pour un chien) now available (to EU users).

[pierre.chepelov]

To expound a bit, as of 1 January 2010, the French term of life + 70 + 14 (wartime extensions) was up. As of 1 January 2011, anything first published in 1985 or before is now public domain in the country of origin

I think I have to add a little correction: the French term for works published before 1921 is not exactly life+70+14, but life+70y+14y+272days.
So − sorry! − Satie's works will become PD in their country of origin only in October 2011...

EDIT: These "Préludes flasques" have been published after 1948, so are not subject the the French wartime extensions... only life+70!

[DrunkenFrenchman]

If I try to download the score, I'm lead to an error page that says the file has been queried but is not available on the EU server yet.

[Carolus]

I forgot about those 272 days. (Thanks Pierre Chepelov!) However, didn't you mean that they would expire on 2 October 2010 (instead of 2011). 1925 plus 84 runs to the end of 2009. Add 272 days and you are up to 1 October 2010. Thus all Satie published more than 25 years ago should be free even in France now, correct?

[BorisJackson]

With Vexations and the other posthumous works, when would they become public domain in the US?

[pierre.chepelov]

However, didn't you mean that they would expire on 2 October 2010 (instead of 2011). 1925 plus 84 runs to the end of 2009. Add 272 days and you are up to 1 October 2010.

You're right! Jan. 1926 + ...... = Oct. 2010. Stupid mistake, I'm vexed!

Thus all Satie published more than 25 years ago should be free even in France now, correct?

I'm note sure about the implementation of the 25-year rule in France, though. I think that everything of Satie published until Oct. 2010, without a named editor, is now PD here.