Work information template: Instrumentation

[varnis]

At the present there are no(?) guidelines on this field's use, ive seen standard shorthand ie (2d1 2d1 2 2, 4 2 3 1, strings) and ive seen full naming ie (2 flutes (1st doubling piccolo)) etc etc. Whilst i understand that a system for searching works on instrumentation is going to be difficult and dependant on correct input of the information, i think it would be worth it.

Searching by genre would allow narrowing down to orchestral work, and then the instrumentation COULD be parsed on a standard form, with non standard instruments being flagged. For example in a small chamber piece, (1 1 1 0, 1 1 0 0, strings) would produce Flute, Oboe, Clarinet, Horn, Trumpet and Strings. On the other hand, Ravels Piano Concerto would begin (picc 1 1 coranglais Ebclar 1) or something similar, which would match Piccolo, Flute, Oboe, Cor Anglais, Eb Clarinet and Clarinet.

For other works like solo piano, no instrumentation is necessary, since a search for solo piano would be handled by the genre system.

Another option is the shorthand system used by some other publishers. In this case the first example could be (2fl I.dbl picc, 2ob 1.dbl C.A., 2cl, 2bsn), which would be easier to parse, but would need a standard layout, perhaps a popup box with instruments clickable that builds a properly formatted instrumentation string.

Just my thoughts,
Varnis

[vinteuil]

OK I'm heading an informal project for this. My guidelines:
Full names, Plus keys, say the number that are doubling.

[Davydov]

I'm with Snailey on this one. Full instrument names, in score order, indicating keys for transposing instruments, e.g. "Clarinet (C)") — or doubling: "3 Flutes (3rd = Piccolo)".

[varnis]

Ok, having just gone over mahlers symphonies in this way, i would say use roman numerals for part numbers, eg 4 Flutes (IV. Doubling Piccolo II.), it just helps to make it clear at a glance, when theres lots of information there. Also with respect to percussion and other offstage instruments in large pieces, I added them in their usual places, so 4 Trumpets in C, F and B{{Flat}}, Offstage Post Horn in B{{Flat}}; and i know this is a clumsy way to do it, do you have any better ideas, perhaps a new section for offstage instruments between Soloists and Strings?

[Carolus]

The field as it presently stands seems too small physically to handle this in a very legible way. I wonder if an update could include a more table-like format to include such detail, which is certainly very desirable to have. For the items where we have parts, listing things in detail is less crucial as the detailed listing is nearly always above in the actual music section. The problem with the abbreviations is that there is more than one system in use. Some systems don't really account for auxiliary instruments used very well, while others can get somewhat cumbersome.

[steltz]

re: varnis' post, I suspect it would be very useful to put all offstage parts together, e.g.:

orchestra: 2 piccolos, 2 oboes, 2 clarinets, 2 bassoons, strings
off-stage orchestra: 12 wagner tubas, a TV, and a case of beer

It just makes it clearer what you need where, and is easily done with the <br> code.

[Carolus]

That was wonderful, steltz!

[steltz]

It was easy -- 20 years in an orchestra, and a trombonist husband . . . . .

[varnis]

Ok, so offstage instruments would go between soloists and strings, that way it allows for offstage percussion to come after normal percussion, meaning we have
Woodwind <br/>
Brass<br/>
Percussion<br/>
Vocal<br/>
Offstage Instruments<br/>
Keyboards and Strings<br/>

One last question, would we count glockenspiel in keyboards, or celesta in percussion?

[steltz]

My opinion is that glockenspiel would never be played by a keyboard player (no mallet training), so it would go in percussion. Likewise, celeste is always played by a keyboard player, so it goes in keyboards. I do know percussionists with keyboard training, but in professional concerts, they always hire professional keyboard players, not percussionists.

[varnis]

Ok, so we're almost through with a complete agreement, the last thing i can think of ismultiple vocal soloists, examples like Gurrelieder, or some of Mahlers symphonies, as well as opera, do we think that Vocal Soli (2S, 3A, 2T, 1Bari, 3 Bass) is acceptable, or would Vocal Soli (2 Soprano, 2 Mezzo-Soprano, 1 Contraoto, 2 Countertenor, 1 Baritone) be preferable?

[pml]

I think there's advantages to having the instrumentation given in both concise (short) and expanded (long) format - perhaps by hiding either the short or long form by ways of a "hide/show" button?

I really prefer reading something concise like : 3(picc).2+cor ang.2+bass cl.3(cbsn) - 4.3.3.1 - tp, hp, 3 perc - 3.3.3.3.2
to the alternative of having it all hanging out. For example with a lot of doublings, it's very often the last cab off the rank (the 2nd in double woodwind, the 3rd in triple woodwind, and so on) that does all the change work, so I find things like "2 Flutes (2nd doubling Piccolo)" tiresome in the extreme to read, let alone to have to type.

Finally, on some of the instrumentation questions: vocal soli designations are usually no different to choral designations, with the exception that some favour Ctrlto (Contralto) to plain old A (Alto). Otherwise, most of the conceivable voicings (including narrators!) are abbreviated thus:
A = Alto; B = Bass; Bar = Baritone; B-Bar = Bass-Baritone (usually solo only); C = Canto; Ctnr = Countertenor; Crlto = Contralto; D = Descant; M = Mean/Medius; Mez = Mezzo-soprano; Narr = Narrator; Recit = Reciter, Spkr = Speaker; S = Soprano; T = Tenor; Tr = Treble (child); v = unspecified single voice; vv = voices, plural

So to answer Varnis, I'd say your two examples would be acceptable either way - for your short example: 2S, 3A, 2T, Bar, 3 B; and for your long example, please include plurals: 2 Sopranos, 2 Mezzo-Sopranos, 1 Contralto, 2 Countertenors, 1 Baritone

Steltz: you are probably right that a glockenspiel would almost never be played by a keyboard player (though there are multiply talented individuals in both the percussion and keyboard worlds), and the instrument should always be rightly considered as a percussion instrument. On the other hand, there are a few particularly small celesta parts in the repertoire (usually consisting of no more than the occasional 3-part chord - I forget which one of Strauss' tone poems fits the bill) which occasionally *are* transferred to glockenspiel... but this is more of a curiosity of logistics that doesn't effect the placement of the instrument, which is definitely to be included in with the keyboards.

Some pieces (I'm thinking of Berlioz) have more than one off-stage orchestra, so there is the possibility that you might not lump all of the players together in strict orchestral order, but that starts to get into the can of worms of the details of performance, rather than the requirement for so-many instruments.

Regards, PML

[steltz]

Re: pml's suggested abbreviated form. We would have to be VERY careful with doublings. There are systems to deal with the difference between a piccolo part that is separate from the flute parts, or a piccolo part that is within a 2nd or 3rd flute part. I find that people are generally so unfamiliar with this that mistakes are easily and frequently made -- even in orchestral catalogues where it should theoretically be without mistakes. The mistakes are so frequent that I find I can't really rely on most listings, but check scores to be doubly sure. This affects how many people you hire, so it is not something you want to make mistakes with.

One system I have worked with is:
2+b.cl = 3 players
2 (b.cl) = 2nd doubles bass clarinet = 2 players

The "+" indicates an extra player, the bracketed designation indicates the instrument is within the number already given.

The system would need to be clearly stated, and carefully monitored.

[varnis]

I agree that the option for a short form should be present, especially because the short form allows easier parsing for an instrumentation search. The problem, as Steltz says, is that there are many, often conflicting, methods for notating instriments, which becomes more cumbersome with the addition of 'uncommon' instruments, while beethoven might be 2.2.2.2-4.2.2.0-timp.strings or something, the above mahler is less easy to abbreviate. I believe that some form of javascript form could be used to properly build a formatted instrumentation string, which would, by its nature, be searchable.

Thanks for the advice Philip, much appreciated

[pml]

@ Steltz – you would have noticed from the example I gave that the work was for triple woodwind in all departments (by use of the +) and only 3º fl. and bsn do the doubling (in brackets). I myself am quite happy working with that notation, but I dare say many contributors wouldn't have the foggiest, judging by what some people have put in the "instrumentation" field in the past...

@ Varnis – I'm well aware that the shorthand is only a means to a goal, and it doesn't cope well with uncommon doubling instruments: which is just too bad. My view on this probably doesn't need re-iterating, but one version of it starts with the words "build a bridge..." ;-)

Even in Beethoven you can find some unexpected complexity, e.g. the Pastoral: 2+picc.2.2.2 - 2.2.2.0 - tp - 2.2.2.1(+2oblig).1 (n.b. string divisi & obligati)

Schönberg's Pierrot Lunaire is supposedly just a sextet (pf, voice, fl, cl, vl, vc) but the doublings are interesting: fl (picc), cl (b.cl), voice, vl (vla), vc, pf; the shorthand for the Gurre-lieder would make a mockery of the word "short":
8(4picc).5(2cor ang).7 A (2 E?, 3 B?, 2b-cl B?).3+2cbsn — 10(4 Wagner tb).6+bass E?.7(a,4t,b,cb).1C-B — tp, 5 perc, 4 hp, cel — S, Mez, 2T, B, Rec, 3xTTBB cori, SSAATTBB coro — 20.20.16.16.8

And one notorious work which I've been involved with (some of the piano reduction for the vocal score) has the following disposition - think of the pain involved writing it out in full:
6(alto fl)+2picc.6(ob d'am,bass ob)+2cor ang.E?+5B?(E?)+2bst hn+2b-cl B?+cb-cl B?.3+2cbsn — 8.8(2crnt E?)+bass D.6(4t,b,2c–b).2+2euph — 2tp, 15 perc, 2 (pref 4) hp, cel, org — off-stage: 4x 2hn,2tpt,2t-trb,2b-tb,tp — SATB, 2x double-SSAATTBBBB cori, children’s choir — 8.8.4.4.4 (20.20.16.14.12)

Regards, PML