Fleisher Collection

[Starrmark]

The greatest repository in the US of out-of-print PD orchestral scores and matching full sets of orchestral parts is the Fleisher Collection at the Philadelphia Free Library. The Fleisher Collection makes these materials available to orchestras free-of-charge for public performances. Many of its works are available nowhere else, including IMSLP. Has IMSLP looked into the possibility of an agreement with the Fleisher Collection to scan some of its PD scores and parts?

MS

[daphnis]

I don't know about us making an appeal to them as an organization, but I myself have tried to get materials from them and have received a firm "no" in every attempt.

[steltz]

I inquired about a couple of scores once, got an automated response saying that someone would get back to me and . . . still waiting, and that had to be at least a year ago (

[jsnfmn]

From my inquiries with them it seems that they are fine with coming into the library in person and making copies, but in order to get the parts and score sent you need to be an organization that is specifically intending to perform the piece to be sent. They do have an amazing collection of items that are frequently available nowhere else in the US. I've thought of making a pilgrimage down there one of these days...

[daphnis]

I actually went back through my email and found a few correspondences in which their librarians offered to make photocopies of certain pieces for me (at a premium price). If you do decide to go in person or ask for photocopies to be sent to you, be sure not to volunteer that they'll be destined for the Internet as they seem to suffer the same warped sense of ownership that ails many a librarian, that their scores are not only their physical property, but also their intellectual with "custom" national and international copyright laws.

[thalbergmad]

I have had two requests turned down, but eventually I managed to find what i wanted somewhere else.

Their stance seems a little strange to me as it might actually hinder works being performed, since it does not allow keen amatuers to view scores and send those they deem worthy of recording to performers and orchestras.

Thal

[kalliwoda]

From my own experience I doubt that the majority of librarians (at least those in charge) are so totally unaware of the copyright laws everywhere in the world.
Its rather that they work in publicly supported institutions, and which taxpayer would gladly support free distribution of rarities, if the recipient then earns a commercial profit from them. Unfortunately works on imslp are sold by SMA LoadCD and all those ebay resellers (not that significantly greater public funds are not wasted in other areas...). So, if asked directly, the libraries will veto the posting on sites like imslp, to follow the policies of the city or state authorities.

This is specially schizophrenic at places like the SLUB, where they have ongoing scan projects and free downloads from their digital collections, but if you order scans of a rare old print directly you still have to sign that it is only for your own private use (and even a concert performance may require previous written approval...).

Re: The Fleisher Collection:
I got very recently a quote for scans by the Fleisher collection (50 cents per page) which is actually pretty much in line with what many other libraries charge.

[kilesmith]

I’m glad to see our Fleisher Collection of Orchestral Music prompting discussion; let me address some issues if I can.

Fleisher is a lending library of orchestral performance material, and that mission takes priority for our small staff. We do some copying of public-domain parts for individual instrumentalists. We also refer folks to IMSLP and, for larger requests, commercial reprint houses.

Scanning of scores is done on a very limited basis, even more limited if the request falls outside our mission of lending for performance. Scanning for republication is permitted in rare cases only when certain Fleisher and Free Library of Philadelphia reprint policies are satisfied.

And we actually know a thing or two about copyright.

So why don’t we just let all our p.d. stuff be scanned? Well, the biggest reason is so that we can continue to do what we do. If there’s a real need and the Library’s policies are followed, then people will know about us as a unique resource: a place that does things no one else is doing. The payment we receive helps defray some of the expense of the housing and staffing that protect this and other items.

Similarly, when an orchestra performs or records a work from the Fleisher Collection, it agrees to our policy of a program or liner note mention that the work came from here. We don’t control the work, there’s no copyright involved, it’s just something that puts into the consciousness of the musical public that we are a valuable resource. Composer estates have deposited materials here because they saw on an orchestral program that we housed other materials. We have been entrusted with significant engraving projects (upon which we spend thousands of dollars) because of who we are. Ives, Gruenberg, Scharwenka, Herbert, Boulanger, and hundreds of other performances and recordings have happened because we exist.

So it’s not because libraries want to hoard everything within their walls. It’s because we want everyone to know we’re here, so that we can continue to provide a service no one else provides. Ask yourself where would these items be right now if the Fleisher Collection didn’t exist.

Finally, we have no automated email response system. Probably an email to the Free Library of Philadelphia online reference system didn’t make its way through; a message for Fleisher is supposed to go right to me. If I don’t answer it, a boss or two will know about it immediately, and will let me know about it. So it sounds like something fell through the system, and I’m sorry if that’s the case. Email me directly with any question, smithk@freelibrary.org. I also answer emails sent to fleisher@freelibrary.org. Thanks,

Kile Smith
Curator
Fleisher Collection of Orchestral Music
Free Library of Philadelphia
1901 Vine St
Philadelphia PA 19103-1116
215-686-5313 tel
215-686-5314 fax
smithk@freelibrary.org

[vinteuil]

Thanks for the note. That seems to clear up one or two things.

[homerdundas]

I was in Philadelphia a few weeks ago and popped into the "Free Library of Philadelphia" to visit the Fleisher Collection of orchestral music. It is pretty amazing - I urge anyone with orchestral music interests to visit. My specific purpose was to locate some orchestral parts missing from my own orchestra library. Not only did they locate the works I was interested in, but provided me with photocopies of those that were in the public domain. The staff were very friendly and seemed extremely knowledgeable. Photocopies were 30c - but that was for full size orchestral part reprints - more than reasonable in my opinion. The Fleisher library apparently lends its items to orchestras internationally, with a small handling fee for each item shipped.

Also, for those of you who like to browse used book stores - the "Friends of the Free Library" operate a used book store just around the corner from the Free Library. They have a few shelves of used scores.

Good show - Philadelphia!
Homer.

[kilesmith]

Thanks, Homer, it was a pleasure meeting you! Thanks for visiting us,
Kile

[Angelos]

The Fleisher Collection has a spectacular amount of orchestral music and rarities. Too bad I live far away to visit them.
I wish it was an affiliate project of IMSLP.

I think the following material is available on Fleisher. It would be nice to see it here one day, as it is PD (at least in Canada)
http://www.bach-cantatas.com/Arran/OT-Esser.htm
http://www.bach-cantatas.com/Arran/OT-Abert-JJ.htm
http://www.bach-cantatas.com/Arran/OT-Scholz-B.htm
http://www.bach-cantatas.com/Arran/OT-Hubay.htm
http://www.bach-cantatas.com/Arran/OT-Verbrugghen.htm
http://www.bach-cantatas.com/Arran/OT-Casella.htm
http://www.bach-cantatas.com/Arran/OT-Goedicke.htm