IMSLP Forums

When will Sergei Rachmaninoff's later works be public domain in the United States? For example ... the Symphonic Dances (Op. 45), Rhapsody on a Theme of Paganini (Op. 43), etc.

EDIT: As in, all the works not yet PD in the U.S.

The items published late in his lifetime (Symphonic Dances, Paganini Variations, final version of the Piano Concerto No. 4) are all protected in the USA for 95 years from the date of publication. Rachmaninoff had a US publisher, Charles Foley, starting in the 1930s. He became a US citizen about a month before his death in 1943. Ironically, this means the items published posthumously in the USSR (like the Symphony No. 1 and some early works) after his death are not eligible for restoration under the GATT/TRIPs rule (not open to US citizens) and therefore PD in the USA (as can be seen by perusing the Kalmus catalogue), since they were published without the requisite notice, which injected them into the public domain upon publication.

Dear Ladies & Gentlemen:

What's the point of your server being in Canada if you're being forced to kowtow to American law? [This is particularly given that we'll otherwise not be able to access any of Rakhmáñinov's late works until at least 2030.]

If we're supposed to follow Canadian law, let's then do so - forget Americans, Europeans or anybody else! Anybody from there who downloads material illegally are the ones who should have to answer, surely not those of us in Canada! And so what if Americans are the bulk of this site's viewers? - that's the whole point of us not being there (especially since you already have the warning disclaimer)! Please!!

Brutus, This issue has been explained several times now. The majority of IMSLP's traffic comes from the USA. In light of the attempt to shut this site down last year from Universal Edition, we have little choice but to tread carefully when it comes to things like this - well-known, lucrative works whose US agents would be able and willing to sue. So, unless you're prepared to go to the main page, click on the Pay-Pal button and make a donation of a couple of hundred thousand dollars (US) to enable Feldmaher to pay attorneys to engage in a legal dogfight in both Canadian and US courts (which is not what he'd rather be doing), this issue is going to have to wait until such time that a reasonably less risky option is worked out.

Thank you, Carolus.

What positively angers me here is that the Canadian government apparently can't - or doesn't want to - stop such nuisance lawsuits from taking place. It's like it's letting its sovereignty get trampled upon by everybody else! Is there positively no way to get it (and/or the provincial governments) involved in this fight so as to stop this kind of harassment or worse? [Has anybody from here tried to contact the Canadian authorities over this matter?]

To boot, where are the lawsuits to attack Russian or other websites that are allowing equivalent materials to be so downloaded?

Furthermore, IBM (at least) DOES have a verification mechanism to ensure that only people in the USA can buy certain products meant only for the American market - surely we can implement a similar mechanism to ensure that Canadians and others whose copyright laws are 50 years can get to see the scores while those whose laws are different can be at least hindered sufficiently that lawsuits would be virtually-impossible. May I recommend that people go to www.ibm.com and see about pretending to buy some of their products (e.g., computer-language compilers, for example PL/1) while doing it as non-Americans? That would be as good a proof as any - if I'm wrong, yours truly is ready to be corrected.

Finally, for those who find my tone aggressive: what can one say when somebody is angry with his country's government?

Brutus, I am not a moderator or in any way involved in the admin at IMSLP, but I have to say the tone of this discussion bothers me a great deal. Your request came across as aggressive, and so do your replies.

Wrong though it may be, companies with lots of money have bullied little guys for many many years, and will continue to do so. The decisions taken here are pragmatic ones designed to ensure that everyone can download lots and lots of things without being shut down over a few pieces. With a little bit of maturity, could you please accept that:

Other people make decisions that you may not like, but you will have to accept them (and should do so gracefully).
IMSLP is a lot more above board, and therefore traceable, than the Russian websites you cite, so, like it or not, they won't get sued any time soon.
You can, if you want, lobby your own government as per your own suggestions -- why don't you volunteer to contact them?

I have gotten many things from this website for free, so $23 for a score to the Symphonic Dances seems a fair trade-off, even though I also live in a country that has a life+50 law. Et tu, . . . .?

Sorry, one edit -- the original request was OK, the replies were bothersome.

Dear Ladies & Gentlemen:

One new feature I'm pleased to see (although it's small consolation relative to seeing a piece blocked ) is when you indicate (as you did with Rakhmáñinov's "Symphonic Dances", Op.45) when the piece will become public domain (assuming the publisher doesn't renew the copyright - could that happen, anybody know for sure?) and therefore accessible on this website.

May I suggest this feature being implemented on all pieces that have to remain blocked so we at least won't be wondering when can we hope to see it? Many thanks in advance!! [This is assuming that IMSLP doesn't find a way to allow non-US users to see files in question.]

Just as I can express my anger over things, let this be evidence of when yours truly likes something done here.

so i guess this is why flight of the bumblebee rachmaninoff's version is blocked

anyone know when the copyright ends?