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Hello everyone,
Being a true VL fanatic, I've either purchased or sampled quite a number of recordings of many of his works, including the complete piano music, symphonies, many ballets, choral music, lieder, chamber music, etc. etc. etc. Given the number of recordings I've listened to it's hard not to notice that nearly all of the performers who attempt his work are relatively obscure; unfortunately, many of them are also awful. Sorry, but it's really true - finding a good VL recording is exceedingly difficult and I've become convinced that only a very small number exist. Really the only solo pianist I've found to be satisfactory is the great and underappreciated Aline van Barentzen; the Cuarteto Latinoamericano has produced by far the best recordings of the string quartets (though the Stuyvesant Quartet's offering is quite good - I think they only recorded one, though); only VL himself seems to have known how to interpret his guitar music (I include Segovia in that); and, most relevant to the topic, Eleazar de Carvalho was apparently the only great conductor to attempt more than one of VL's works.
I am aware of the existence of the recording of Kondrashin conducting Rostropovich in an arrangement of Bachianas 1, and also of Leinsdorf conducting Bidú Sayão on Bachianas 5, plus Bernstein doing the same work. But as far as I can tell, no other conductor of similar caliber has produced any recordings, save Carvalho. (Though Weingartner did conduct a couple of his works, I can't find any recordings.) And unfortunately, Carvalho - apparently the only good conductor who really understood how VL should be played - doesn't seem to have made very many recordings either. I do have the CD of him doing Choros 8, the Fantasia for Cello and Orchestra (+Starker), and Uirapuru (along with a short work by Marlos Nobre). And I've found maybe one or two other works available for purchase, IIRC (I think the Guitar Concerto? or Harp Concerto? don't remember, maybe neither). But he definitely conducted a wide variety of VL works, and I am aware of the existence of footage of him doing other stuff (like Choros 10) from the 1988 festival. Apparently, that never found its way into the form of a recording, though it is easily one of the greatest performances of the work ever captured (along with that conducted by VL himself, which turned out unusually well for him).
So, my question is as follows: does anyone know of VL recordings by really good conductors? More of Bernstein, Kondrashin, or Leinsdorf - or Ormandy, Mitropoulos, Mravinsky, Rozhdestvensky, Gergiev, Monteux, Solti, Karajan? Or how about Scherchen, Mengelberg, Ansermet, Klemperer, Kleiber, Munch, Szell, Furtwängler? I realize that it's sort of a long shot for most of them but really, it would be great to find an 'alternate discography' to the mostly awful versions being recorded today (looking at you, Neschling and Minczuk). Duarte and St. Clair are about the cream of the crop nowadays, as far as I know, but they still can't compare to Carvalho. (I admit I haven't heard Ben-Dor's recording of Symphony No.10, though given that it's one of his worst symphonies I'm not too enthusiastic about the prospect. Ben-Dor is quite good on other Latin-American composers, though. Can anyone recommend that recording, incidentally?)
Anyway, thanks in advance

My knowledge of the discographies of Kondrashin, Leinsdorf, Mravinsky, Rozhdestvensky, Gergiev, Solti, Karajan, Ansermet, Klemperer, Kleiber (C and E), and Szell would lead me to conclude that none of these conductors made commercial recordings of any works by VL. It's possible that there are radio broadcasts of VL by some of them (Ansermet would be the best bet, being a modernist enthusiast) but they would be rather hard to find, considering that you haven't found them already.

I enjoyed the VL disc done by Michael Tilson-Thomas (who is, to use your phrase, "a really good conductor" and Renee Fleming (see Amazon link below) but not being a VL specialist or enthusiast I don't know if it would come up to your standards. There's also the Naxos recording of all the Bachianas Brasileiras by Kenneth Schermerhorn and the Nashville Symphony Orchestra that might be good. It is reviewed highly by Amazon customers.

--Sixtus


http://www.amazon.com/Brasileira--Villa ... 222&sr=8-1

http://www.amazon.com/Villa-Lobos-Bachi ... 661&sr=1-3

PS: Being on your list of great conductors (I'd take exception only to Leinsdorf) doesn't necessarily guarantee that any performance of music they aren't already noted for would be even adequate, especially if they aren't sympathetic to the style (e.g. Bernstein's recording of Carter's Concerto for Orchestra).

sbeckmesser wrote:My knowledge of the discographies of Kondrashin, Leinsdorf, Mravinsky, Rozhdestvensky, Gergiev, Solti, Karajan, Ansermet, Klemperer, Kleiber (C and E), and Szell would lead me to conclude that none of these conductors made commercial recordings of any works by VL. It's possible that there are radio broadcasts of VL by some of them (Ansermet would be the best bet, being a modernist enthusiast) but they would be rather hard to find, considering that you haven't found them already.

Indeed, I have now found exactly one Ansermet recording - of the First Piano Concerto. It seems to be stylistically a good recording; not sure I'll get it, though (given the mediocrity of the work itself). I guess I had my hopes up for modernist enthusiasts (and personal favorites) Mitropoulos and Monteux, but neither seem to have recorded anything (though both did give premiere performances of a few of VL's works). I'll keep looking...

I enjoyed the VL disc done by Michael Tilson-Thomas (who is, to use your phrase, "a really good conductor" and Renee Fleming (see Amazon link below) but not being a VL specialist or enthusiast I don't know if it would come up to your standards. There's also the Naxos recording of all the Bachianas Brasileiras by Kenneth Schermerhorn and the Nashville Symphony Orchestra that might be good. It is reviewed highly by Amazon customers.

Sorry, I didn't mean to come off as a snob I had previously noted the MTT recording, but from the (longish) samples I can freely access of it I think that like most recent interpretations, it is firmly on the conservative side - though yes, he generally has an excellent command of the orchestra, the freedom and vitality of rhythm and phrasing are not quite what I would hope for in what I would judge to be a 'good' recording. This review might elucidate what I mean slightly, not sure if you've read it: http://www.villalobos.ca/node/31

PS: Being on your list of great conductors (I'd take exception only to Leinsdorf) doesn't necessarily guarantee that any performance of music they aren't already noted for would be even adequate, especially if they aren't sympathetic to the style (e.g. Bernstein's recording of Carter's Concerto for Orchestra).

Point noted, but I just thought there would be a greater chance of an adequate recording from someone of that caliber. (I don't mean to limit the possibilities to the ones I mentioned, either; Carvalho is a perfect example of a really excellent conductor who certainly doesn't fit into the company of those who are generally considered to be great.)

Update:
Stokowski recorded Uirapuru and two movements from Bachianas Brasileiras; I have yet to evaluate this disc, it may well be good. (http://villalobos.ca/node/2088) A 1980s recording of Bachianas 1 with the Pleeth Cello Octet, from what I can tell from samples, is definitely a cut above other modern recordings I've heard of the piece. (http://villalobos.ca/node/566) Most intriguingly, it seems that Carvalho made another LP's worth of VL recordings that have never found their way to CD form, for whatever reason. It includes Choros 10 and is not available to buy from any obvious places, though my university library has the LP and I think someone on the internet has digitized it. (http://villalobos.ca/node/3531)
With regards to other performers, I have at long last discovered Arnaldo Estrella as more than a name on a page and I have to say that he is a magnificent interpreter of VL. (http://villalobos.ca/node/1657) So there are two really good pianists I know of, then, him and Barentzen. To be honest, I've never really thought much of M. Tagliaferro's recordings, and modern pianists like Rubinsky don't really meet the same standard (although her recordings are superior to many others making the rounds these days). Also, violinist Ricardo Odnoposoff seems to have an excellent handle on the style, though I've only found a couple of recordings so far. (http://villalobos.ca/node/3158 is one)
The next conductors I plan to evaluate are Sakari Oramo, Jan Wagner (I think I may have heard one or two recordings already), and Paul Freeman. I'll also look at pianist Joanna Brzezinska. (I've checked out several things from the U. library in order to evaluate them; I hope to persistently explore more recordings this way.)

I feel your pain, KGill, and agree that a LOT of the recordings by VL are quite poor, and I have many of them. I think the recordings of the piano concerti with Christina Ortiz are quite good (with the Royal Philharmonic Orchestra
and Miguel Gómez-Martínez, conductor), and because he was such a prolific composer of music for winds, there are some very good recordings of his wind chamber music. Being an oboist and having played almost all of his chamber music for oboe, I can testify that it is not easy stuff and is difficult to pull-off successfully--in concert or on disc. And there is certainly a bias of quality recordings that favor VL's more "Brazilian" works like the Chôros No. 7 and Quintette en forme de chôros over more "experimental" works such as his Quartet for flute, oboe, clarinet, and bassoon and Nonet. The latter is especially interesting: it features a word-less choir along with a quintet of winds, percussion, and keyboards, and was only commercially recorded once in the 1950s. Finding the parts alone was a huge chore.

Hi KGill,

I think that John Barbirolli, a highly respected conductor, made a recording of the orchestral version of Bachianas brasileiras No.4. I think I have a recording of it somewhere, but I don't remember how good it is. Villa-Lobos is a greatly underappreciated composer. I set up a page a few weeks ago called "Discographies", and it's a potential project to catalog recordings in a sortable list. I'm not quite sure how it will work since I think it would be nice to be able to search by different criterion: by composer, by date, by performer, etc. If IMSLP's cataloging project works, maybe it can help find some more good Villa-Lobos recordings.

Respectfully yours,

Emery

daphnis wrote:I think the recordings of the piano concerti with Christina Ortiz are quite good (with the Royal Philharmonic Orchestra and Miguel Gómez-Martínez, conductor), and because he was such a prolific composer of music for winds, there are some very good recordings of his wind chamber music.

I admit that my main experience with Ortiz's playing is in the recording of Choros 11 with Neschling, whose presence as conductor is quite enough to solidify the performance into unbearable mediocrity (well, on almost all recordings I've heard, I think Choros 3 might be about the only exception although it is not perfect). From listening to some samples of her playing (at least I can get an idea of it that way), she seems to have more of a grasp of the style than most pianists these days. I will keep her in mind to dig into a little more. (Though I'm not too eager to listen to any more of the Piano Concertos...)

And there is certainly a bias of quality recordings that favor VL's more "Brazilian" works like the Chôros No. 7 and Quintette en forme de chôros over more "experimental" works such as his Quartet for flute, oboe, clarinet, and bassoon and Nonet. The latter is especially interesting: it features a word-less choir along with a quintet of winds, percussion, and keyboards, and was only commercially recorded once in the 1950s. Finding the parts alone was a huge chore.

Ah yes, the Nonetto - surely one of the most fascinatingly brilliant and generally underappreciated works of the 20th century. I have the 1940 recording conducted by Hugh Ross, plus a recording from 2005 (?); I have yet to experience the 1950s or 1975 (?again - going from memory here) versions.

Emery wrote:I think that John Barbirolli, a highly respected conductor, made a recording of the orchestral version of Bachianas brasileiras No.4. I think I have a recording of it somewhere, but I don't remember how good it is.

I have found it here: http://www.villalobos.ca/node/3468 I haven't heard it before and my university library doesn't appear to have it; I probably won't be getting my hands on it for a while, unfortunately. Would you mind giving a review of it here?
In other news , I've found out that Eugene Goossens recorded a quite-passable-but-perhaps-not-especially-great version of Bachianas 2 (on the same disc as the Stokowski mentioned in a previous post). There is another really excellent version of the finale on YouTube without any information on conductor or orchestra (video pjDZUetrDCM) - if anyone can tell me who that is, by the way, I would be extremely grateful. Diemecke turned out a surprisingly good recording of the work, for him - I think it might be the only time I would say his conducting is not totally mediocre (of course I haven't heard all his recordings, but I've checked out a fairly large amount). I think the problem with a lot of recordings is that they take it too slow and relaxed, letting it sit on its rhythms rather than pushing it. Although VL's own recording suffers from many inadequacies, it is instructive in this regard. Incidentally, Neville Marriner has also conducted some VL: http://www.villalobos.ca/node/4131
To deliver some of my promised reviews, conductor Jan Wagner is technically competent, producing performances that sound good on the surface, but is not nearly so assured in the rhythm/phrasing aspects of the style. A good European-sounding disc nevertheless; I'd place him in the same category as Carl St. Clair in this respect, in that I enjoyed the recording but was not particularly 'impressed' by it. (http://villalobos.ca/node/1295) Pianist Joanna Brzezinska, though, while at least showing an ability to make a nice sound, seems totally lost in terms of style. Some of the tracks on the disc I listened to sounded almost as if they were actually from her practice run-through at a 'rehearsal tempo' - overall very disappointing. (http://villalobos.ca/node/1019) On the bright side, I found an absolutely fantastic recording of the First Piano Trio, the Third Violin Sonata, and some of the art/popular songs in my university library: http://www.villalobos.ca/node/2398 For anyone who needs convincing that his trios and violin sonatas are not fluff pieces, I couldn't recommend this recording more highly.

More mini-reviews:
Sakari Oramo's conducting is quite nice; for a modern recording, there was more richness of style than I expected, though it still falls short of what I would hope for in a 'good' recording. Though the handling of the orchestra is overall competent, Oramo leaves some loose ends in terms of phrasing that could and should have been tied up better, and frankly he could have worked on balance a bit more as well, especially with regard to the brass. The recording brought out some interesting sonorities that I hadn't heard before, but it is firmly on the conservative side. (http://www.villalobos.ca/node/1516)
Today I listened to the CD of the 'complete music for violin and piano' (probably untrue) recorded by Paul Klinck and Claude Coppens. I would say it has approximately the same strengths and weaknesses as the Oramo, actually. Klinck is a stronger violinist than other modern performers I've heard attempt the sonatas, but even so his style is essentially European. Unfortunately this means that the works overall do not come off as well as they could. (http://www.villalobos.ca/node/1345)
The other recording I evaluated today was of pianist Nohema Fernandez playing several solo works and Momoprecoce. Conductor Paul Freeman is thoroughly lackluster here, and I think Fernandez tried to be stylistically interesting but ended up sounding a bit lost and incohesive. There are some intriguing touches, but I would hardly rate it as a good recording. (http://www.villalobos.ca/node/1491)

Although I am not a guitarist or at all qualified to comment on guitar technique, I find Norbert Kraft's recording of the complete guitar works (Naxos, 2000) quite well-played. (I have compared his performance to the scores and his playing shows clarity and technical proficiency while being very generally musical). I feel confident in recommending this recording to any Villa-Lobos enthusiasts. KGill et al, when you post reviews, can you also include the studio and recording date? It would help me, and perhaps others, locate the recording quickly should we decide to purchase it based on your reviews.

I've gone one further than that and provided the links to each recording's entry on villalobos.ca, which should include all the basic information and also usually has at least one link to purchase. Hopefully that's OK
Norbert Kraft's renditions of the Preludes impress me above most others I've heard, though I feel that there is not quite as much character as there could be; nevertheless, I think that if I were recommending which recordings to get to build a good library of VL guitar music, I would suggest looking at Segovia, Kraft, and VL himself. In the former two there is much more polish and carefully-thought-out phrasing (so it seems), while VL gets a kind of rough elegance and eloquence out of his own compositions that I have not heard elsewhere. (http://villalobos.ca/node/1671 - this is one of the 'core discs' for any VL enthusiast)

I've found some performances of Villa-Lobos choral/orchestral works at the streaming-replay site of Netherlands Radio.

http://concerthuis.radio4.nl/concert/94 ... VillaLobos

The main site has LOTS of other interesting stuff that bears investigation, including Boulez conducting Boulez and Varese and others, and 3 complete Wagner operas conducted by Jaap van Zweden (Parsifal, Meistersinger, Lohengrin). The last time I looked there were also the three operas of Puccini's Trittico and Weber's Freischutz. Lots of early music too (a great Monteverdi Vespers). The site is in Dutch but it is easily navigable even without Google Translate. There are some web-page errors, however (such as mislabeled links to pieces within a given concert).

NB: the music is posted on a temporary basis and the repertory changes slowly from week to week. If you find something you want to hear, you should listen to it as soon as possible for it may disappear tomorrow.

--Sixtus

Thanks for the link, Sixtus, and for the heads-up on the temporary status of each recording. Acting on that advice I've transferred the 3 Villa-Lobos files to my iTunes library for safekeeping My headphones are broken so I might not get to listen to them right now, but I'll try to in the next couple days.

OK, never mind, I still managed to find a way to listen to all three works. I've never heard Vidapura before which alone makes the recording interesting, but I was a little disappointed with the quality of the performances overall. They seemed a little bland, not very conscious of the style; I liked the conductor's tempo selections, but even in Choros 10 where he takes it quite fast it seems to drag because of the stiffness of the orchestra's playing. There is very little give and take in the adherence to tempo, written rhythms, etc. - it was a very careful performance, and as I've probably already beaten to death overly careful performances are the bane of composers like Villa-Lobos. What he actually wrote on the page does not represent 100% of what the piece should be - it's more like 60%, and the performer has to come up with his or her own ideas on how to stretch that into a complete 'work'. This is probably why his works are overall so difficult to play, because classical musicians aren't really trained to do that anymore. Maybe they should put together a jazz group to perform the Nonetto...