Second U-E cease and desist letter (new topic)

Post by **Funper** » Sat Oct 20, 2007 9:05 am

I don't think that a restart would happen very soon. Not this year atleast.

theoneandonly · Post by **theoneandonly** » Sat Oct 20, 2007 9:13 am

Concerning law issues i'm really not the fittest, but wouldn't it be possible to set up a "pirateserver". Like a pirate radio station sending from the neutral zone of the sea, could there be a server in a country that's not affected by those laws? The upload would still be questionable but it would be a kind of peccadillo. And the server itself is unreachable for the lawyers.

*just dreaming*

Arturo · Post by **Arturo** » Sat Oct 20, 2007 9:46 am

I don't understand, why you do whatever these *censored* corporations want. Server was in Canada, and all was copyright-off. They cannot JUST sue you and win it. There is a LAW. And law is on the our side. This "letter" wich they wrote, is a piece of sh*t! I make all the scans for no $. I uploaded everything affected by idea of something in this world not for $$$. We must take this project up. And how long we will try, it never die.

***
To (new) users:
I have almost all IMSLP organ and harpsichord scores, if you need something, contact me.
***
And last thing, to IMSLP creator:
THANK YOU

matteo · Post by **matteo** » Sat Oct 20, 2007 9:56 am

I notice that no lesser a person than Franz Liszt has risen from the dead on Myspace and come to the aid of IMSLP!

http://www.myspace.com/lisztvirtuoso

Liszt's Myspace page

He has published a statement and a plea for help in a blog. Crazy! I hope it helps.

BTW - how does one set up a "pirate" server? There must surely be many countries where one could do this - beyond the clutches of UE. Could that not be a solution? Also - I'm sure that money could be provided (by subscription or gift) in order to help the site continue. It's too valuable a resource to let die.[/url]

Witold · Post by **Witold** » Sat Oct 20, 2007 10:02 am

A pirate server is definitively not the solution. If the activity is to continue in any way, which I sincerely hope it will, then it must be kept legal, as it always have been.

marcus · Post by **marcus** » Sat Oct 20, 2007 11:25 am

First of all I want to heartly thank Feldmahler for IMSLP and all its contributers!!!
Unfortunately, I became aware of this site rather late (1-2 months ago) but I was immediately filled with enthusiasm because of all the rare (out-of-print) scores that I found. Also I got to know some composers I've never heard of (and as I study musicology I knew very well there was more than the obligatory 'mainstream composer club')
IMSLP was the best location to get (half-)forgotten scores from (half-)forgotten composers. I mean, searching desperately for a certain score can drive you mad because sometimes they can't even be found in (national) libraries. Therefore IMSLP must not die!

I agree with Peter:

I think there are only two options:

1. restart, but with stricter copyright laws - taking for example 70 y post mortem and pre-1923 as the only rules accepted - to prevent any further action. I suppose this would keep 75% of IMSLP on-line? The existing archive (image server dump!?) can be trimmed to the new boundaries and everything should be back on track. We could even only delete the very limited number of UE's publications that are subject to the cease & desist. On longer term, there might be even time to work out an IP-based access restriction and add other scores that are in your backup disk.
Feldmahler, I think this would be the best solution with the least effort, as deletion of certain autotagged works is really an easy job. This could be a temporary solution, where no legal doubtfulness is involved. The copyright review team will be well aware of the new restrictions.

(Note the highlighted sentence)

The majority of scores in the IMSLP seems not to be in danger of copyright infringements. So I'd say: Cut out the cancer and let the body live.

And: I've bought many many many sheet music in my life (mostly piano music) - it fills approx. 2,5 meters on my shelf. I regret it that a very very small part of this scores was published by UE. But there will be no more new ones next to them!

P · Post by P » Sat Oct 20, 2007 11:36 am

I'm sad to see IMSLP gone for now, but grateful, as always, for its existence in the past. I am a legal academic who has benefited greatly from the site's existence, and share the belief held by many that this incident need not be the downfall of IMSLP forever.

There seem to be two issues threatening IMSLP, which are (i) the threat of legal action against IMSLP for copyright infringement, and (ii) the cost - financial and otherwise - of keeping IMSLP running. Neither of these are insurmountable. The solution to the first is simple: prohibit the uploading of all works still protected under copyright in significant jurisdictions. The solution to the second is less straightforward, but its general thrust is equally obvious: share the burden of running IMSLP, both financial (by inviting donations) and administrative (by appointing additional site administrators to make the workload manageable). I would be willing to help out with the former, but sadly do not have the time to assist with the latter.

Feldmahler, please do not hesitate to drop me an email. I am certainly willing to help you as far as circumstances permit.

Post by **Funper** » Sat Oct 20, 2007 11:38 am

no why should we make restrictions? the law in canada strictly speaks by saying life+50, unless the server is somewere else, why should we make these restrictions? with Feldmahler closing shop, UE has won. they came with nothing and now they are leaving with everything. thepiratebay.org has had similar threats, what do they do? they don't care. they humiliate the big companies. despite that their business is illegal they are still running. what do the big companies do? they drop it.
closing shop because of this C&D-letter was very unnecessary. i can understand if you didn't have enough money, but you're playing in UE's hand right now. i am sure that lawyers in canada would laugh at UE's claim if you were brought to court.

Robert · Post by **Robert** » Sat Oct 20, 2007 11:41 am

Dear Feldmahler,

I have just sent you an email but wish also to express my ability to help out on this forum.

For others who do not know me (not meaning to boast), I am the admin/founder of Piano Society (http://pianosociety.com) and we (IMSLP and Piano Society) had an ongoing collaboration where Piano Society linked to scores at IMSLP and ISMLP linked to recording at Piano Society.

Piano Society runs on a dedicated server which I own myself (Linux), with a 100 MBit/s full duplex connection and I am in very much control of the entire project. I have plenty of space and bandwidth left and I doubt it would be a problem to locate the project there. The server is located in Sweden where unfortunately the EU's 70 years laws applies but we are untouchable for the 1923 rule. So within 3 months, there will be no problem for any composers dead from 1937 and backwards (includes Ravel Gerschwin etc.).

So what I do in this post is to offer my help to this wonderful project! Please, let me do!

Vivaldi · Post by **Vivaldi** » Sat Oct 20, 2007 11:42 am

I see this assault as some sort of a first salvo. If they somehow don't succeed, other publishers will gang up and follow suit.
At least one German music publisher has the heart to offer octavo sized paperback editions of the NMA which is much more affordable than their full-sized, hardcover counterparts.

Post by **Matthieu** » Sat Oct 20, 2007 11:43 am

no why should we make restrictions? the law in canada strictly speaks by saying life+50, unless the server is somewere else, why should we make these restrictions? with Feldmahler closing shop, UE has won. they came with nothing and now they are leaving with everything. thepiratebay.org has had similar threats, what do they do? they don't care. they humiliate the big companies. despite that their business is illegal they are still running. what do the big companies do? they drop it.
closing shop because of this C&D-letter was very unnecessary. i can understand if you didn't have enough money, but you're playing in UE's hand right now. i am sure that lawyers in canada would laugh at UE's claim if you were brought to court.

Would you like to take Feldmahler's place ?
You seem so strong... I'm really upset by your post.

Matthieu

nicgios · Post by **nicgios** » Sat Oct 20, 2007 11:49 am

Funper wrote:no why should we make restrictions? the law in canada strictly speaks by saying life+50, unless the server is somewere else, why should we make these restrictions? with Feldmahler closing shop, UE has won. they came with nothing and now they are leaving with everything. thepiratebay.org has had similar threats, what do they do? they don't care. they humiliate the big companies. despite that their business is illegal they are still running. what do the big companies do? they drop it.
closing shop because of this C&D-letter was very unnecessary. i can understand if you didn't have enough money, but you're playing in UE's hand right now. i am sure that lawyers in canada would laugh at UE's claim if you were brought to court.

I TOTALLY agree. Bravo Funper. There companies must stop these actions.

nicgios

Post by **Matthieu** » Sat Oct 20, 2007 11:53 am

I TOTALLY agree. Bravo Funper. There companies must stop these actions.

nicgios

... and one more brave heroe well hidden behind his screen !!

Vivaldi · Post by **Vivaldi** » Sat Oct 20, 2007 11:59 am

As the motto for the state of Oklahoma says:
Labor omnia vincit!!!
(Work conquers all!!!)

Robert · Post by **Robert** » Sat Oct 20, 2007 12:00 pm

nicgios wrote:
Funper wrote:no why should we make restrictions? the law in canada strictly speaks by saying life+50, unless the server is somewere else, why should we make these restrictions? with Feldmahler closing shop, UE has won. they came with nothing and now they are leaving with everything. thepiratebay.org has had similar threats, what do they do? they don't care. they humiliate the big companies. despite that their business is illegal they are still running. what do the big companies do? they drop it.
closing shop because of this C&D-letter was very unnecessary. i can understand if you didn't have enough money, but you're playing in UE's hand right now. i am sure that lawyers in canada would laugh at UE's claim if you were brought to court.
I TOTALLY agree. Bravo Funper. There companies must stop these actions.

nicgios

I agree but it is not THAT easy. First of all, the companies running the co-locations are scared when the lawyers enters the scene and do everything to please them. I have myself quite some experiences and had one server ending up at the police one time (a pianosociety.com download server). Such events drains you from power and you feel painfully alone and helpless. Their tactics is to scare people to silence and they are very successful in doing so (however did not succeed with me). Even the Swedish police run their business and you perhaps remember when ThePirateBay in Sweden was raided?

As I said earlier, I can offer my assistance (have personal contact with lawyers etc.) but only if we remove the composers who died after 1937.

IMSLP Forums

Second U-E cease and desist letter (new topic)

Liszt takes up the cause